Takeaways from Stockholm

It’s been a few days since the Stockholm E-Cat QX demonstration, and lots of thoughts have been shared about it. I haven’t said too much myself having been busy behind the scenes of the site, trying to make sure that everything has been running okay.

Speaking for myself, I have found the whole event very interesting. I will agree with people who say that nothing was proven unequivocally in this demonstration. To expect a demo like this to provide final proof would have been a very high bar to set, as clearly a demonstration that is controlled by an inventor is not an environment where rigorous scientific experimentation can be done to come to a final conclusions. And Mats explained this clearly to the audience.

Personally, I found what was shown in the calorimetry demonstration, based on the measurements taken and reported, quite convincing. It was a simple setup, and I think the chances of Andrea Rossi having a hidden heat source in the apparatus unlikely. Mats has the pump, and maybe at some point he will be able to tell us if he found anything incorporated in it that could have acted as a heater.

As I have learned over the years, when it comes to the E-Cat and Andrea Rossi, and LENR in general, there is a wide range of perspectives and personal opinions. I have mine, and others have theirs, and in the final analysis people make up their own minds on the subject, until we have LENR products, or at least experimental devicese, that we can test for ourselves.

Andrea Rossi gave us a good understanding of the problems he has to deal with before he can commercialize the E-Cat. His first priority seems to be miniaturizing the control system, which he says currently is prone to overheating without an active cooling system, which currently consumes a good deal of power. We don’t know much about the control system, but perhaps more than we knew before the Stockholm demo, and it seems to be absolutely critical to the operation of the QX. Only after he has the controller sorted out will he be able to move into production planning, and this sounds like it could be a fairly long-term project. My guess at this point is many months of work lie ahead on dealing with the controller. Rossi has said he is hiring people to help him in this effort, which is good to hear.

So overall, my takeway from all this, is that Andrea Rossi has got the E-Cat working well. He has problems to solve with the control system. I also think he is still highly concerned about competition. There was perhaps more information given away during this test than he would have liked, especially with the audience able to read the traces on the oscilloscope. But this system does seem to be very complex, a far cry from the early E-Cats and Hot Cats, which many replicators have been focusing on. It would be difficult to try and reverse engineer the QX system on a low budget.

As far as E-Cat World goes, we’ll keep following the story where it leads. Hopefully e-catworld.com will be back to normal before too long.

I will add here, since I now have permission to discuss it, that I have personally witnessed a demonstration of an earlier E-Cat. Earlier this year, I was invited by Andrea Rossi to see an earlier version of what apears to have become the E-Cat QX. From memory, I am sure that the device I saw in action is the one pictured on the left side of this photograph published in the Gullstrom/Rossi article published in July 2017.

ecatqx

The testing I observed that day gave results very similar to those reported in the first version of the Rossi/Gullstroem paper in which temperature was measured via spectrometry, and output power was calculated using the Wein and Boltzmann equations , and input was measured as it was in the recent demonstration, taking voltage readings over a 1 Ohm resistor. These are the results reported in that article.

Input: 0.105 V of direct current over a 1 Ohm resistance.
Energy output: The wavelength of the radiations from the reactor was mea-sured with a spectrometer ( Stellar Net spectrometer 350-1150 nm ) and wasintegrated with the value of 1100 nm ( 1.1 microns ).The temperature of the surface of the reactor ( a perfect black body ) wascalculated with Wien’s equation: 2900/λ(micron) = 2900/1.1 = 2636 KAs per Boltzmann’s equation, the effect is:W=σ××T4×AA = 1.0cm2= 0.9By substitution:W= 5,67×1012×0.9×4.8×1013= 244.9

The E-Cat I saw was ‘naked’ during operation, meaning it was not enclosed within any heat exchanger, and it could be viewed during operation with the naked eye. I noticed that Mats reports that has seen something similar, however in my case the light of the plasma was not blueish, as Mats stated, but more of a yellowish white. It ran intermittently, as in the Stockholm demonstration. I did not time it, but I would say it was on for perhaps one second, and was off for perhaps 4-5 seconds. Andrea Rossi explained that the need for intermittency was to prevent the reactor from overheating and melting down.

There was no oscilloscope used in taking measurements in the test I observed, just voltmeters and the spectrometer. As I was under NDA at the time, I did not take photos or video, but tried to absorb as much information as I could while I was there. I did not know when the NDA would be lifted, but I asked Andrea if I could talk about what I had witnesseds following the Stockholm demonstration, and he said I was free to do so now.

Frank Acland

 

 

  • Barbierir

    Thanks Frank for everything you’ve done so far. Has there been any news or leak about the purportedly replication by the swedish scientists?

    • Frank Acland

      No, only Mats’ comments that it could yet take some time.

  • Ged

    Fascinating. Thank you, Frank, for sharing this info (now that the NDA is over). Seems Rossi is putting everything into the QX.

  • artefact

    Cool Frank. Was the light very bright or would you say the light is more a side effect?

    • Frank Acland

      It was bright, but not like a light bulb. Not hard to look at.

  • Yes, maybe yellowish white is more accurate. Difficult to judge colors of emitted light without references.

  • Peter Ljungqvist

    I think the most interesting part was the theories of Gullström. The theories make it possible to develop alternate ways to achieve energy, if the tunneling mechanism is at work here.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    In the November demo, three devices were used, yet they were controlled as one unit (only one power circuit). Did either you, Frank, or Mats discuss how multiple devices could be controlled by one controller? I think that is key to being able to scale up the power out while not increasing the controller power.

    • Frank Acland

      AR has said that one control box can power 100 quarks. In the recent presentation, he said he hopes that a single controller can power thousands of QXs. Not sure how many he has so far run from one box simultaneously, however.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        Thanks, Frank. Did he say (or imply) how this is accomplished? I know that some devices can simply be tied in parallel — high power field-effect transistors are simply made by fabricating many many small ones and tying them in parallel. The devices naturally share current. Bipolar transistors, on the other hand, cannot since when heated, they drop in resistance, taking more current — thermal run away.

        How were the three devices at the demo used?

      • Pekka Janhunen

        At least the part of the controller which ignites the plasma by producing a high-voltage spike, it needs a certain energy so if scaled to drive multiple quarks, the current of the voltage spike must be scaled as well.

        • tlp

          The high-voltage spike is very short, maybe when thousands of QXs are connected, they are spiked in different times, one after each other. Though in the demo 3 QX were connected parallel on same wire, but thousands of QXs could be in several groups, like 10 x 100 or so.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            True. I was thinking that if the spike is created by first slowly loading and then rapidly discharging a capacitor, the loading phase must be proportionally faster if the number of units increases, necessitating a larger high-voltage generator for that subsystem.

          • Dr. Mike

            I agree. You have to store proportionally more charge to drive numerous parallel devices. If that charge can be stored fast enough, it should be possible to switch the pulses to different groups of devices as suggested by tlp

  • Frank Acland

    No, I did not take any pictures, this picture comes from Rossi’s own paper. I believe that the power supply unit I saw is the one on the left side of this photo, from the outside it is just looks like a metal box, I could not see inside it. Andrea explained that the power supply produced a special waveform that was necessary to produce the LENR reaction in the reactor.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      In the above photo, I cannot find the 1 ohm resistor. Could you identify it? Were the input measurements perhaps done in a different way than at the demo?

      • Frank Acland

        In the experimental setup I saw, the reactor was not sitting on top of the control box, as in the photo, it was separated by approx 2 feet. The wiring leading from the control box was open to see, and the 1 Ohm resistor was visible on the circuit board.

  • Gerard McEk

    Thanks Frank for revealing this to us. Did Andrea tell you also things that are still under NDA?

    • Frank Acland

      No, he said I am free to discuss my visit now.

  • georgehants

    Morning Frank, very glad you have met Rossi after following and writing about him for so long.
    You may guess that if I met Rossi the conversation would probably be over very quickly and his security would escort me to the door.
    He did of course answer our question last year, swearing on “the holy bible” that his E-cat produced more output than input.
    Sadly so far nobody Worldwide has openly demonstrated a repeatable replication, (excluding Pekka’s reported announcement on the other page).
    The World waits while Rome burns.

  • Bohem FromCz

    Demonstration E-CatQX was arranged as follow:
    Control circuits (big white box) generated electric signals for cluster of 3 QX. Their cooling was transparent and output power was 20-30W.
    But input power of white box was about 60W. To our believing is submit the claim that most of energy is lost in control circuits and that one is used for their cooling and not for energy generated by 3 QX.
    With claiming COP=500 and output QX power cca 30W should be input power 30W/500=cca0.06W. But we must believe that for this is necessary cooling power about 60wats.
    I can’t blame Rossi he mislead us or QX does not work, but I can responsibly claim that demonstration did not proof Quark works and DEMONSTRATION WAS VERY SHOW.

    There are 2 possibility coming on my mind why it was as it was.
    1. Control circuits is designed for say 100 quarks and have no possibility to lower input power for 3 quarks
    2. Quarks after excitation generate beside heat energy also back electric energy (kick-back) to the control circuits so they are warming. That is why is needed active cooling (may be peltier..?).

    I know it sounds ridiculously, but I cheer to the second possibility.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    “Dr Andrea Rossi,

    I am the CTO of an important company in the aerospace field. I am
    following your publications and tests since the Bologna event of January
    2011 and I think the test at the IVA of Stockolm has been a
    masterpiece. The measurements made are all fully satisfactory to us and
    it is clear to me that you made a technological miracle. I am reading in
    the blogosphere many comments of amateurs lecturing about this and that
    without knowledge of the matter, but I can assure you that our experts I
    am talking with are extremely impressed, even shocked, by what they saw
    in the video, that we scrutinized second by second.

    We can help you to resolve the overheating of the control box easily.

    We will contact you next Monday, so you will know me. I cannot expose myself in a blog.

    Godspeed, Andrea and see you soon.”

    I get an unpleasant FEELING from the language that this message is not quite what it says. It resemble’s AR’s accent in a remote, weird way. Maybe he wrote it himself, OR someone else did, someone who wants people to think that AR writes comments to his blog himself. Or maybe CTO’s or aerospace companies talk this way, who am I to say that they don’t.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Confidence decreased by another step.

    • Well, at least he didn’t say he was the only surviving heir of Prince Makeitup who died with 10 million dollars deposited in a despotic country’s bank and, if you could only open an account with a mere 10 thousand dollars, we could transfer the money and go 50-50!

  • Gian Luca

    Calculations …. reasoning …. suppositions ….. unsuitable tools …. water heated by the pump
    Frank……you don’t think that the interessant part is the Black “withe” box?
    Maybe we’re looking at our finger and not the moon
    What is really the black box?

    • Frank Acland

      Yes, I think it is a critical part of this QX system, and apparently the most difficult one.

  • Bob Greenyer

    In the most basic case, starting with Nickel + LiAlH4 the yellow colour suggests to me Helium production

    1. High Voltage relativistic discharge creates heterogeneous dynamic plasma consisting of

    H+
    H*
    H-
    H2

    2. H- is driven by discharge driven oscillation into Nickel,

    3. (a) if there is some other isotopes of Nickel other than 62, these may transmute iteratively towards 62Ni
    (a) if only 62Ni, then majority of H- will break down and lead to high energy protons

    4. high energy protons ejected from Nickel interact with 7Li leading to, in each event, 2 x Alpha which take balance of electrons to form 2 x Helium

    http://www.ice-age-ahead-iaa.ca/small/hydrogen_helium_comparison.jpg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Hardly relativistic. Electron rest mass corresponds to 512 kilovolts. We are speculating about only 1 kilovolt or so.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Two points, Adamenko/Shoulders use a dielectric and field, charge builds up / ‘bunches’ until dielectric breakdown occurs this leads to a specific type of discharge.

        Further, I mean that that KS says that the H-/Negaton/e-pe-/Magnon etc. shields mass and inertia in addition to Charge (which all others agree on despite the nomenclature), so that the composite particle or smallest possible CC can be accelerated in a small field up to high velocities. This in combination with the charge screening may allow it to enter the Nickel in a more dynamic way than Piantelli’s subtle ‘anharmonic oscillations’ / discrete breathers.

    • Omega Z

      I saw this and thought- a 1980’s 8 bit video game.
      Donkey Kong saving the lady

  • For awhile now people have been posting on JONP in faux-Rossi-voice in order to make it look like he writes to himself.

    He also does sometimes when he needs to ask something important indirectly, but it’s become impossible to tell which ones are his and which ones are not. I don’t think this one is.

    Trolls will be trolls.

    Someone is very amused right now that Rossi thinks he’s going to be contacted by an aerospace CTO.

    • Omega Z

      It also claims to have followed Rossi since 2011 on JONP. Wouldn’t they know to contact Rossi via [email protected].
      Yet Rossi had to spell it out.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    It is possible that the devices can somehow synchronize and not thermally run away, Since the theory is not yet known, it is hard to predict if they can be operated in parallel, series, or coupled in some other way. Rossi said that the test device used three QX devices. How?

  • Dr. Mike

    The “box” was able to set the QX power level to 30%, so it has to be more than an “ignition box”.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Hi ARM – you can try his blog – however, he does read/write here.

    Send a message via the form on quantumheat.org

  • Bob Greenyer

    Muons in a bottle

    A meeting of minds in hallowed halls haunted by the ghost of Edison leads to a fascinating talk about the capacity of metals to store strange energy packets that appear to lead to unusual phenomena.

    https://soundcloud.com/user-554048314/muons-in-a-bottle

    • Hi Bob, I’ll need time to take all that in but who exactly was that very informed American guy you were talking to?

  • Omega Z

    Well obviously anyone who was looking to invest with this would want to bring his experts in to run tests. They would also want a fully functional unit that could run for a minimum amount of time. Only a silly dolt would invest based on a video…

  • Omega Z

    It was merely a Demonstration of the current state of Rossi’s technology and how it’s evolved. Nothing more. This Demo wasn’t meant to prove anything.

    As to why he doesn’t give more info at this time is easy. Every clue Rossi gives just makes it easier for someone to figure out the process and catch up. Just read the posts here at ECW and you’ll see many people speculating and theorizing as to how it works.
    You wont have 100% proof until he brings it to market.